72 Weeks

Daniel: Hello and welcome to the seventh episode of 72 Weeks. My name is Daniel and I�m the Head of Outreach and Communications at New College, which is part of the University of Oxford. This Podcast is called 72 Weeks as that�s the average length of an Undergraduate degree course here at Oxford. And, each episode, I�ll be talking to two people about how life can change, and indeed has changed, during that relatively short piece of time. Each episode, the people interviewed will have a common thread, or indeed threads, that they share with the other person and this week I�m delighted to be joined by current New College Undergraduate, Sarah, both hail originally from different parts of the country, so the connection may not initially appear obvious, but my two guests have a special connection in that Chris was the Headteacher of Sarah�s school, The Churchill Academy in Somerset. So, welcome and good morning, Chris and Sarah.
So, Sarah, we�ll start with you, um, you�re a few weeks in now to your first year, here at New College. How has it gone so far?
Sarah: It has been amazing, but very very busy.
Daniel: Busy in what way?
Sarah: Um, well there�s lots of socialising and making friends, going out with them. But also I�ve got a lot of contact hours, lectures, and labs, lab reports, tute sheets, that sort of thing.
Daniel: OK, so how many hours a day would you say you�re working, on average?
Sarah: Um, depends on whether I�m in the lab or not.
Daniel: OK
Sarah: If I�ve got a lab day, I�ll do a 9 to 5 day of contact hours and then maybe, like, an hour or two afterwards doing tute sheets and lab reports and things. Otherwise, I do a bit less because, yeah.
Daniel: OK, so I always think Science sets you up quite well for the working world really
Sarah: Probably, yeah
Daniel: It�s a bit like having a job, whereas Arts and Humanities is far looser in terms of managing your time. So Chris, what can you remember about your first few weeks in New College?
Chris: I can definitely remember the socialising that Sarah�s describing and that warm welcome that was there. Yeah, it was um, really well set up then and, you know, I�m sure it�s the same now, just to bring people from such diverse backgrounds and all over the world actually, and help them make friends, and uh, my contact hours were certainly a lot less as an English student than Sarah�s were. But I did spend an awful lot of time in the library and reading, and uh, you know, that�s a habit I�ve been set up well with for life, you know, still reading voraciously all these years later.
Daniel: Well done, even though you�re a busy Headmaster as well. So it must be difficult to find time to read. Um, so when did you both then think, Sarah we�ll start with you, when did you think of applying to Oxford University?
Sarah: Um, well in Year 11 we came on a visit to New College. And that made me think, �oh, maybe this is somewhere that I might think about applying� and then during school we�d have people come back who were at Oxford at the time. And they would talk to us about it, and then that made me think this is actually achievable, that I could try this.
Daniel: And Chris, why do you think that is an alien concept for students in your school? Why do you think, you know, Oxford is seen that way?
Chris: So I think this is really really interesting. And, um, uh, one of the things that I�ve really pushed for throughout my career as a teacher, after Oxford, is demystifying the kind of process of Oxford, and the reality of Oxford and part of the reason why I brought that group of Year 11 students to New College, including Sarah, just before the pandemic in 2019, was just to do that, to take the mystique out of it, to recognise that, you know, it was an achievable thing, to recognise that it was something that wasn�t beyond anyone, um, in that group for applying for. And then, I�m really delighted to hear Sarah saying how impactful the alumni programme is, because, um, she�ll be on it very soon. Uh, but we like to bring back ex students of Churchill Academy and Sixth Form who have gone on to Oxford or Cambridge, um, to talk to students who might be thinking about it. And it demystifies the process of application but it also makes it real; that they were sat in the same classrooms as them not so long ago. And, um, certainly my experience is that, uh, I went to an independent boys school and, uh, it was never a question that applying to Oxford was going to be something that we weren�t entitled to, you know, half of my English class ended up going to Oxford or Cambridge, in my highly selective public school. And I think part of my mission as an educator and teacher is to try and level the playing field a bit. Because I think, um, you know, you don�t get students from these top private schools who even think twice about their right to apply to Oxford. Whereas, I think for comprehensive schools, um, people need to see the reality of what it might be like. And also to think that they have as much of a right to a place at Oxford or Cambridge as anyone does. Um, and you know, it�s fantastic for me, really rewarding for me to see people like Sarah, um, and other ex Churchill Academy students, um who are forging out that path and making it more real for students who are going to follow in their footsteps.
Daniel: So you mentioned there that you went to an independent school, and it was almost seen as a rite of passage really, the next logical step, to apply to Oxford. So what sort of preparation did you have then that perhaps made the concept of applying to Oxford less intimidating, less daunting?
Chris: Yeah, um, I think there was a lot of preparation for, well �a� there was a track record so, you know, when I came up for my interview, for example, there was someone studying my subject from my school in the year above, who was there ready to say �you know�, so it was very much people from my school do this and that�s what happens. So it�s a kind of in-built privilege, or whatever it is that�s in that process. There was also a very well established programme to prepare you for the entrance exams and, um you know, the interview process. We had mock interviews and that kind of stuff. Those are things that we replicate at Churchill now. We have a mock interview programme, you know, we do have a specialist tutor in the sixth form who helps students prepare for the various entrance exams they have to do now, quite different to my day. And, um, you know we try our very best to ensure that the playing field is as level as possible. Uh, but ultimately it comes down to that moment of realisation that Sarah was describing where she, our students, suddenly think �I can do this, this is a feasible option for me, um, and if I don�t apply I�ll never know�. And that�s great to hear, that it�s having the impact that it has. It�s fabulous seeing Sarah be a beneficiary of that and as successful as she is being now.
Daniel: And Sarah, in terms of experience, what�s been the best thing about being in New College, so far?
Sarah: Um, all of the people. There�s some really nice people in my year and they�re all really friendly. I don�t think I�ve met anyone that I don�t get on really well with.
Daniel: And how hard was it to make friends? Because those first few days can be really difficult, really hard.
Sarah: Um, it was OK because there were so many activities on during Freshers Week. And everyone was really friendly, and everyone was in the same boat, pretty much. So we�d all just talk to each other during these events and then make friends.
Daniel: Good, good to hear. And what are you finding particularly difficult at the moment? If anything.
Sarah: Um, it is kind of managing my time a bit. I do, suddenly, have quite a lot of work to do which I didn�t have in Freshers Week.
Daniel: Yeah
Sarah: But it�s doable because I really enjoy my subject.
Daniel: Good, um, and Chris if we talk, you mentioned you studied English at University. Why did you decide to apply to study English?
Chris: I think it was, um, obviously a love of books is there but actually, fundamentally, it came down to wanting to find out more about particular parts of literature. So I was particularly interested in modern American poets, that was the thing that got me going at A level, and it was only a very small part of the A level, but, you know, I really loved it and I thought well, I really want to know more. I want to know more about this, and um, uh, you know, I thought a degree in English was a way in there. But, also, education, you know, was always in my family and always in my mind as a career. Um, and, uh, you know, I couldn�t think of anything better than spending my career talking to kids about books. I mean that seemed like an absolute win. Uh, and as it happens, in the role that I�m doing now, I do that a bit less, because as leader of a school I don�t teach as much, although I do still teach, um, but it certainly was a fantastic 20 years of talking about books with kids. And I still make time to do that whenever possible.
Daniel: So as a Headteacher then, how do you instil a love of reading to the children that, you may not teach directly, but how do you organise that in a school?
Chris: Well, there�s quite a few ways. But obviously we�ve got our kind of curriculum that�s set up with reading at the centre of it, but also a, you know, really thriving school library that I know some schools have swapped out libraries for learning resource centres and computer suites, and so on. We have fought tooth and nail to keep our library, to keep our librarian, to keep our library assistant, to make that a kind of hub of the school; books do sit at the heart of the school. As well as that, talking to students about what I�m reading at the moment and what they�re reading, and can you recommend something for me. You know, I read as much young adult fiction as I do adult stuff and, uh, that�s to keep in with what�s happening in that genre at the moment. And kids� eyes always light up, you know, if you see them reading in tutor time or round the school and you think �oh, I�ve read the other one in that series, is this one any good?� And they just love to talk to you about books. And the kids around them who see that conversation happening, um you know, tap into that and recognise that reading is something that will get them places and is OK. It�s partly what we were talking about earlier, if they see it happening, they see that their teachers read, they see that their peer group read, then it makes it OK. Just like seeing someone go to University. And that sense of �that�s something that we can do�. And then it becomes more acceptable and more, uh, more viable for them to do that.
Daniel: And Sarah, I was talking to a few recent graduates a couple of weeks ago, and they said one of the things they enjoy most now is rediscovering reading for pleasure, rather than reading for the purpose of academic study. Um, is reading something that you enjoy and is it something that has just gone by the wayside now you�re focusing on just your Chemistry?
Sarah: Yeah, I do really really enjoy reading but I haven�t had very much time to read for pleasure since going to Uni.
Daniel: So it�s difficult isn�t it, it�s sort of finding time to actually read even though you�re studying all of the time is quite a difficult thing to do. So Chris, you mentioned, um, teenage fiction there. Um, more broadly, who�s your favourite author? Um, do you have a favourite novel of all time? If so, what is it?
Chris: I do. It�s still Sylvia Plath. That was the one that hit me when I was about 17, uh, reading some of her poems from Ariel, but then reading The Bell Jar. That was what got me interested in, I mean I was always interested in literature but that�s what really sparked my interest. And I still think that her ability to turn a phrase and to capture, like, a feeling in words is, I think, unparalleled in my experience. Maybe it�s because it hit me when I was a teenager, and it�s got deep within me, but still that�s something I can read and I just have to, kind of, put it down and go for a little walk just to, kind of, work it out of my system. The emotion of it. So really really love Plath and, uh you know, I�ve got a whole shelf at home devoted to various editions of her work; it�s probably a bit self-indulgent of me.
Daniel: And what books do you recommend your students to read?
Chris: Oh, well it depends on the student.
Daniel: Right
Chris: But I think finding the thing that works for them is great, and you know, um, having teenage kids myself and uh, you know, seeing what works with them is really really useful but you know, um, I think dystopias are really big at the moment. And, uh, there�s various strands of dystopia that you can recommend to kids and maybe it�s because we are almost living through one, it�s become so pertinent to our young people
Daniel: Yeah
Chris: But they do really enjoy those and, you know, there are a wide range of those that are available to them and it gets them thinking about bigger issues in the world and how things may or may not go in the future. I always find that a really interesting conversation to have with them.
Daniel: So if we talk about New College then, um, Chris can you remember why did you choose to apply to New College specifically?
Chris: So I came with my Mum and we had a look around Oxford, and uh, were largely guided by architecture. Uh, so had a few things there, but also I knew that I wanted a big college. I felt that would be better for me, just a large group of people, uh, so I knew I�d be able to find people that were like me and were friendly. I�ve always quite enjoyed being part of a bigger institution so that was good. Um, but, uh New College was just beautiful. And then there was that thing where there was another, um English student from my school who was already doing English at New College, who by just weird coincidence was also my babysitter when I was a tiny child. Uh, so we knew the family pretty well and so that just sort of helped sum it up really. Um, yeah, and I was delighted to get in. And never looked back, loved it.
Daniel: And Sarah, what about you? Why did you pick New College?
Sarah: Um, well I was looking through online at all of the different colleges and what I was asking myself was, could I see myself being there. At New College, I could see myself being there. And it�s a very nice College. I like that it�s a big year group.
Daniel: So, Chris, what�s your favourite thing about New College and where�s your favourite place within the College? You mentioned the architecture.
Chris: Yeah, it�s 100% the Cloisters. Uh, that�s my favourite place in College. And has been since my interview really. Uh, I can remember, before my interview with Craig Rayne, who was my tutor in English, um, I went to the Cloisters and just read a couple of poems back to myself just to remind myself what I was talking about in my interview. But the quietness, the peace and calm of the Cloisters, this was pre-Harry Potter as well, but the calm and quiet of the cloisters is just, I find it a really centering, calming place. Whenever I was feeling stressed by work or anything during my Undergraduate degree, the Cloisters would always be a place I would just go, just take ten minutes just in the peace and quiet, just to be really really calm and, um, yeah, and then Harry Potter and seeing it on the big screen was also lovely but, uh, that was a few years later on. But that�s definitely my favourite place. Um, and what Sarah said about the people is absolutely true and, uh, it�s been lovely to come back to New College today and I�m actually meeting up with a friend of mine from Undergraduate days a bit later this afternoon.
Daniel: Oh, lovely.
Chris: Just to, kind of, go over old times and catch up with each other really.
Daniel: And you mentioned pre-Harry Potter there, so when, sort of measure things pre-Harry Potter, so when were you a student at New College?
Chris: I was there 93 to 96.
Daniel: OK, so how do you think the student life, in your opinion, how has it changed do you think? Compared to the world of today.
Chris: So what I remember, what I think the crucial thing is that it was pre, so I got my first email in my second or third year in Uni. You know, we didn�t have email, we didn�t have, certainly didn�t have mobile phones, so communication was through going around to peoples� rooms and leaving physical notes on their doors. There was a little push pin-pad on everyone�s door and you�d write a note, we used to get quite creative with those. And that was it, you know, we didn�t have, uh room to room phones or anything like that, it literally was if you wanted to meet up you had to arrange it, uh, like in advance and see people there and drop notes on peoples� doors and so on and so forth. Um, so I think the communication side is different, um, now. I can remember getting a postcard with my first year results on it, from my tutors in the post, in the mail. Uh, so I guess that�s a significant difference and, uh, you know I�m not too good with procrastination and distraction so I don�t know how I�d have coped doing my degree if I�d had a mobile phone with me, I think I�d have to be very self-disciplined. But I can see the benefit, in terms of the access to the internet and so on, being a really useful resource for study as well. Um, but we didn�t have any of that when I was studying. I wrote most of my essays in my first year with a fountain pen on paper.
Daniel: There�s something quite nice about that though isn�t there?
Chris: Yeah. It was nice.
Daniel: And, uh, Sarah, you know, even though the student experience may have changed, there are some traditions not just at New College but in Oxford, that have been there for a very very long time. Um, how have you found those sorts of things? Going to a, you know, Formal Hall in the Dining Hall, you know, wearing a gown perhaps, um, going through your matriculation. How have you found that side of Oxford? Because it�s quite alien.
Sarah: It is alien but I think it�s really cool. Because all these people before me have done this. And then, especially matriculation day, it was like nothing ever before. But it was really quite exciting.
Daniel: So tell us about matriculation and what that is.
Sarah: Matriculation, so um, we wear our sub-fusc. And then we walked from College to, um, the Sheldonian. Um, we sat in the Sheldonian, they said a few words in Latin to each other, and then explained what the Latin meant. And then we left and celebrated for the rest of the day.
Daniel: Good. Had a bit of a party. And what is, you mentioned there you have to wear sub-fusc, what is that?
Sarah: Well, for me, sub-fusc is like a white blouse with a black ribbon and black skirt. It�s, and black shoes.
Daniel: So it�s a bit like a uniform isn�t it?
Sarah: Yeah
Daniel: Yeah, Chris, can you remember wearing your sub-fusc?
Chris: Yeah, you have to wear them for your exams as well. So, you know, it�s a white bow tie for guys I think, isn�t it? And the gown that goes on as well. Uh, but like Sarah says, when you, kind of, are part of these traditions, you feel part of something that stretches back hundreds and hundreds of years, you know, that people have been doing for a very long time. And you do feel like you�re being inducted into something significant, and you feel part of a tradition. Um, and almost like you feel a responsibility not to let them down, you know, you feel the weight of that, especially in an old college, ironically like New College. Um, where you know there have been generations and generations of people before you, um, studying and doing really interesting things. You kind of feel like, you know, well that�s me now. And that feels really good I think, really empowering.
Daniel: Yeah, and after New College, so you did your English degree, you mentioned that teaching is in your blood. Is it something that you always wanted to do?
Chris: Yeah, from a really early age so by in my blood, I mean, you know, my grandparents were both teachers, my parents are both teachers, my cousin is a teacher, you know, it absolutely runs deep deep within. So I�m the third generation of our family to be a Headteacher, um, although I�m the first one to do that in secondary. My Grandad and my Dad were both Primary Heads, um, so I always wanted to teach. Um, and, um, after my 72 weeks at Oxford, um, I knew I was going to do a PGCE and I just felt like I needed a change, so I applied to Nottingham to do a PGCE. Um, having done my, I didn�t want to tarnish it, like I�d done my degree and that was just a really fabulous experience, so I kind of thought, right, don�t milk it. You know, you�ve done your time at Oxford. Now, let�s go and try something different. Um, so I went to Nottingham to do my PGCE, got my first teaching job in Nottingham. My philosophy always was, um, if you�re not, you know, you�re pretty sure you�re going to enjoy this, but if you�re not enjoying teaching, don�t do it. Because there�s nothing worse than being taught by someone whose heart�s not in it. I think, certainly that�s my feeling about it. But I did love it, and I�ve loved it ever since. And, uh, got my first job in 1997 after my PGCE in north Nottinghamshire, and uh, taught there, taught in and around the East Midlands, uh, for a few years. And then moved down to the south west in 2010, um, to be a Deputy Head and then, uh, in 2016, a Headteacher at Churchill where Sarah went. And, um, yeah, just you know, love education, love working with young people, love the idea that you�re part of, um, building the next generation and opening up opportunities for them and, um, you know it�s difficult, challenging but most careers are and, um, you know, the rewards, I think in teaching have been really really special. And, uh, it�s just great to meet individual products of that. Like coming back and seeing Sarah, and I can see that she�s gone through seven years of school where I�ve been the Head, and she�s done alright. And that�s a good feeling; you know, that I�ve not broken her. She�s doing OK.
Daniel: So Sarah, you can be honest here, as a former student of Chris�s, was he a good Head Teacher?
Sarah: Yes, definitely.
Daniel: Uh, and why was that? Why was he a good Headteacher, or an excellent Headteacher?
Sarah: I think because you were always there. Like you�d walk round school and you�d be there, helping people, and you wouldn�t be scary which is quite important because sometimes teachers are scary, but you really weren�t. Uh, and I remember when I was, when we were all applying to Uni, if we sent you our personal statements, you�d like, reply really quickly with really good feedback and good quality advice on how to apply. Yeah, I feel like you knew us as individuals as well, rather than, you know.
Chris: Well, that�s made me quite emotional.
Daniel: Yeah
Chris: Thanks Sarah
Daniel: Nice thing for you, Chris, for half term.
Chris: Can I have that written down somewhere?
Daniel: You can jot it down when you listen back. But Chris, in your opinion then, as a Headteacher, what does make a good Headteacher?
Chris: Well, I�m just blown away by what Sarah said because those are the things that I try to do. Where you feel like every child in your school is one of my students. And I care about them all, and then obviously, you know, there are nearly 1700 of them in my school.
Daniel: Wow
Chris: So I can�t, um, speak to every one of them every single day but I want them all to know that I�m interested in them. And that I care about them, and that I want them to do well. And, um, so I think being present, being visible, having those conversations, chatting to people, um, you know, being there for them, uh, when they need you, I think is really really important. And trying to understand where they�re coming from, and what they�re going through. Um, it�s a big team effort, education, at the best of times, just making sure you�ve got the people around you who can do that as well, um, but yeah, all of those things I think are really really really important.
Daniel: Um, and it�s a difficult job but ultimately an extremely rewarding job, but what is the hardest thing about being a Headteacher of a school?
Chris: Um, well, it�s not being able to do everything that you know you need to be able to do for all the children. Um, so you know, uh in any institution, in any job, but particularly in education I think, you know, we don�t have the resource to do, to provide the level of education that I know we could do. I know if I had adequate resource, I know how much better a job we could all do. Uh, so that�s really frustrating, particularly for students who, uh, you know are disadvantaged or have, you know, barriers or obstacles that need to be overcome. And you know that there is a limit to what you can actually offer. And you know that if you had more, you could do so much more. I think that�s really frustrating, so that�s the most frustrating thing, that�s the thing that really, uh, winds me up when I go home from school of a day knowing that if I had, if I had adequate resource, I could do more. Um, so you just have to contain yourself knowing that you�ve done everything you could with what you had. Um, know that you�ve done your best really. I think that�s the most important thing.
Daniel: And in your opinion, um, why, or perhaps if there are any potential graduates listening to this, who perhaps are finishing their degree this year, why would you say to them to consider a career in teaching?
Chris: The reason I went into teaching was that I really loved English, I loved books. And, you know, I didn�t know I was going to be a Headteacher when I started, um, and you know it�s an opportunity to pass that on. To spend your career in the subject that you love, um, passing that passion on to young people, and not all of them are going to love your subject, um, but hopefully they�ll see the point of it. Um, and you know, it�s great to hear Chemists like Sarah say that they still enjoy reading, you know that�s um, that�s a sign of what a good English teacher can do. How that can work. Um, and although I�m not a Chemist, I did love my Chemistry when I was at school as well because my teachers loved it. And they were passionate about it and excited about it, and I think, you know, if you love your subject and you know a lot about it, then teaching is something where you can really, um, think deeply about your subject every day. And help, um, other people see what you see in it.
Daniel: And Sarah, do you have any ideas about what you�d like to do in the future?
Sarah: The nice thing about having the next four years, is that I can work it out. I think I do want to do something with Chemistry, maybe chemical research but I haven�t decided what area of chemistry.
Daniel: You�ve got plenty of time
Sarah: Yeah
Daniel: Plenty of time to have a think about what you�d like to do because Chemistry is not a 72 weeks, it�s a four year course isn�t it. So you�ve actually got 72 plus whatever 24 is. Uh, I can�t do that quickly this morning. Um, there we go. Um, Chris, and coming back to teaching, um, this is something that when I was teaching, I always found quite depressing as a statistic that a Sutton Trust report that was published in 2016 concluded that 43% of state secondary school teachers say they would rarely or never advise their bright pupils to apply to Oxbridge. Now why do you think this is? And then, what can be done about that?
Chris: Yeah, I remember seeing that report and I was flabbergasted and I don�t understand why. I guess there are still, you know, societal misconceptions and prejudices about what Oxford and Cambridge are. Um, and, uh, you know, I think those are wrong. Well, I know they�re wrong. And, they�re not, you know, and ultimately, uh, there is an inequity in terms of, uh, state school versus private school intake to Oxford and Cambridge. But the only way that�s going to change is if more state school people apply so I don�t know why you wouldn�t advise, um, advise someone to apply if they�re interested and they�re capable. Why wouldn�t you? Like, it�s one of your five choices on your UCAS form. Nobody who applies to Oxford is guaranteed a place. That just doesn�t happen. So you�ve got to go into it with your eyes open knowing that you will do your best, and if you don�t get in, you don�t get in, but there are plenty of other really really excellent universities out there. That was certainly my attitude in applying. But I don�t know why you wouldn�t, why you wouldn�t have a go at that. And I really don�t understand it, and certainly it�s not an attitude that we take at Churchill. Um, uh, and you know we would always encourage our students to be ambitious with their choices and to, not to feel that they don�t have any right to anything really, that they�re as good as anyone. And, um, uh, if they don�t put their hat in the ring, then they�re never going to get the chance. That�s absolutely our philosophy. So I don�t understand it but it must come down to, I think, societal prejudice and also, uh, a lack of experience that people, you know, would have had to have met someone from Oxford or Cambridge, don�t know what it�s like, haven�t taken the time to find out more, um, and certainly when I came with Sarah and her peers to New College, and hearing all of the work that�s going on with outreach, and helping people from under-represented groups to understand that they have just as much of a right to an application as anyone, um, I find that really heartening and encouraging, and you know I think the Oxford of 2022 is a much more egalitarian place than perhaps even it was in the 90s when I was applying.
Daniel: It�s good to hear. Um, on a less serious note, when you were a student here, Chris, what did you do outside of your degree?
Chris: Uh, I did a lot. A lot of socialising, which was great. Uh, I was hooked into trying out, uh, trying out rowing in my first week. And, uh, once they�ve got their hooks in, they don�t let you go in the rowing club. So I was rowing for three years. I honestly don�t think I�ve ever been fitter than I was in my third year of Oxford. I wasn�t a very good rower but I was very enthusiastic. Um, lots of music and drama, you know, just basically tried to get involved with as much as I could. Um, you know, just tried things out. Bit of film making as well, that was quite interesting. Um, but yeah, so just lots and lots of exciting things. So was in bands and plays and all sorts of stuff, so it was great.
Daniel: Any good band names?
Chris: Terrible band names. Terrible band names.
Daniel: Any terrible band names?
Chris: Yeah, we were in a band called Beat Route. That�s B-E-A-T R-O-U-T-E.
Daniel: Oh, ok, like The Beatles.
Chris: Like The Beatles, yeah, but not really like The Beatles. Um, you know, so we were in a few. The rest, I think, it�s probably best if we move on.
Daniel: Ok, say no more. And Sarah, what about you? Because the first few weeks can be a bit overwhelming, you sign up for everything. Um, what have you signed up for?
Sarah: Um, at the moment I�m doing college orchestra because I�m a flautist. And we�re in the process of creating an ultimate frisbee team for the college.
Daniel: Oh, cool. That�s fun. Explain what ultimate frisbee is if anybody doesn�t know.
Sarah: It�s kind of a combination between rugby, netball, obviously frisbee itself and can�t remember what the other sport is. But you have two teams of seven people and you�ve got to try and get the frisbee to the end. So of each end. And you can�t move with the frisbee so you�ve got to pass it and, yeah.
Daniel: And tell me about, um, your musical background.
Sarah: Um, so, I�ve been playing flute since I was seven. And I was really lucky because my primary school had a school orchestra so I was in that. And that we have a lot of music stuff going on in secondary school. So I did flute group, I did concert band, I did orchestra. And there were other music things and yeah.
Daniel: And have you made use of the Clore Music studios here at New College yet?
Sarah: Um, yeah, we had an orchestra rehearsal in there on Friday. And they were really nice.
Daniel: Yeah, they�re beautiful, beautiful rooms. Um, and Chris, I�ve got to ask you this. So we follow you on Twitter, as a Headteacher, and you would be interested in a rapidly growing society here at Oxford which is the Taylor Swift Society.
Chris: Amazing
Daniel: Um, so a lot of my student helpers have joined this society, it seems to be growing rapidly. You�re a big fan.
Chris: Huge
Daniel: What is it about Taylor Swift?
Chris: So, obviously you know, I pre-dated Taylor Swift at Oxford but I would have, like, been Chair of the Taylor Swift Society. Um, so, well you know, uh, it was in Brooklyn 99, she makes us all feel things. So she, like, captures different emotions and feelings. But also I�m just in awe of her as a businesswoman. I think her ability, so part of my job is teaching media as well, just seeing the way that she, um, she kind of runs the business of the music industry is an astonishing thing. And I know I�m being completely manipulated into spending money I don�t need to spend and you know I�m glad to do it. And I don�t know how she manages that. It�s an astonishing thing. Um, uh, so yeah, she�s a real inspiration and she makes her way into probably too many assemblies of mine at school. And leavers assemblies, and speeches, so yeah, I probably almost over-egg the Taylor Swift pudding. And, uh, as Sarah will know, I have a Taylor Swift portrait in my office.
Daniel: Oh, wow.
Chris: So there�s two portraits in my office; William Shakespeare and Taylor Swift. My guiding lights through my career.
Daniel: What two guiding lights to have. Um, I think as well, I mean I have two daughters. Chris, I don�t know, do you have a daughter?
Chris: I do, yeah
Daniel: I think she�s a positive role model
Chris: Yeah, definitely
Daniel: You know, for young women in the world today, um, that some pop stars aren�t.
Chris: Yeah, that�s true.
Daniel: Um, and I�d be quite happy when my daughters are older if they told me that they were into Taylor Swift. Um, Sarah, are you a fan?
Sarah: I am. Not to the same extent. But, yeah.
Daniel: And, um, Chris, do you like the new album?
Chris: I love it, yeah, really good. I�ve been listening to it on the way down today. And, uh, yeah, just trying to get used to all the lyrics.
Daniel: And she�s announcing some dates I think, soon?
Chris: Oh, yes, I will be saving up.
Daniel: Right, good. Um, and to finish with, Chris, we�ve mentioned an average Oxford degree takes up just 72 weeks of your life. Sarah, it will be a bit longer for you, um, if you could relive those weeks again, what, if anything, would you do differently? And, secondly, what one piece of advice, um, would you offer to Sarah?
Chris: Uh, those two things are very much related. So I definitely wouldn�t drink as much on matriculation day as I did when I was matriculating. That was a big regret of mine, didn�t do very well on that day at all. Um, but yeah, actually I think the mistakes I made when I was at Oxford were just as instructive as the things I got right. So I wouldn�t change a thing really. You know, like, things that I got wrong, um, absolutely contributed to the success of the experience. So, I think for Sarah, in terms of advice, um, knowing when to stop drinking would be one, obviously. Um, but, uh, I think it�s just try to take advantage of all of the opportunities that are on offer to you. Um, and just take a moment every now and then to savour it, just to kind of look around and think �oh, I�m really here, I�m really doing this�. I remember taking moments like that when I was at Oxford, just to look around and think �oh wow, this is actually happening�. Um, and uh, you know, just enjoy the whole thing. And also, things are going to wrong, and you�re going to make mistakes. And that�s part and parcel of the experience. So learn as much from them as you do from all of the things that you get right.
Daniel: I feel like there�s a Taylor Swift message in there as well.
Chris: I wish I could have found a quote. That would have been great.
Daniel: Brilliant. Uh, well Chris and Sarah, thank you very much for joining me this morning and for having a chat. Thanks very much.