72 Weeks

Daniel: Hello and welcome to the sixth episode of 72 Weeks. My name is Daniel and I�m the Head of Outreach and Communications at New College, which is part of the University of Oxford. And, this Podcast is called 72 Weeks as that�s the average length of an Undergraduate degree course here at Oxford. And, in each episode, I�ll be talking to two people about how life can change, and indeed has changed, during that relatively short period of time. Each episode, the people interviewed will have a common thread, or indeed threads, that they share with the other person and this week I�m delighted to be joined by current New College Undergraduate, Patrick, and New College graduate and the Warden of the College, Miles. And my two guests have several commonalities. Both study, and indeed studied, History at New College, both are involved with the English Speaking Union, and both have served, and are currently serving, as JCR President of New College so, a very good morning to you both. Welcome, Patrick and Miles.
Miles: Morning
Daniel: Good morning. OK, Patrick, we�re going to start with you. Um, firstly, I�m very aware that there are quite a few words and phrases used in Oxford University that can be quite confusing to people who don�t know anything about the University and JCR is one of those. So can you first of all just explain what a JCR is, and then secondly what your role as JCR President involves.
Paddy: Yeah, so before I provide some clarity on that I�m going to add to the confusion a bit. There are a couple of other CRs that are worth mentioning. There�s also a MCR and a SCR. So, they stand for Junior Common Room, Middle Common Room, and Senior Common Room. Um, and the Junior Common Room is what I�m part of; it�s the Undergraduate population of the College. Middle Common Room are the postgraduates and the SCR, the Senior Common Room, are the tutors and fellows. Um, so what the Junior Common Room does is we represent the undergraduate interests, as President of a Committee of about 30 people. We try and put on a vibrant social life for the College. Um, we try and get people together, form the community a bit stronger. But then our other roles are representing the interests of the students to College. I have regular meetings with Miles and other college members and college staff. Um, and then also meeting with other Colleges in the wider University to, kind of, try and reflect student interests around there. But really, it�s about making the College as much of a place that we want to live in as possible.
Daniel: And what about your role as the JCR President then? Does that mean you�re the boss of the College?
Paddy: I probably walk around thinking I�m quite important a lot of the time and, um, really it�s about trying to engage with as many people in College as possible. I think that�s the real value of my role, that I get to go up to people and say hi and introduce myself without everyone thinking I�m a bit weird and I should go and find my own friends. So, um, I really get to meet as many people and I�m there to oversee, um, quite a large committee who each have their own individual roles. We have people responsible for particular welfare, and we have entz reps to put on social life, um, we have a bunch of different officers; a LGBTQ+ officer, a women�s officer, to represent different, um, interests of different segments of the College. Um, so I�m there to oversee and to also, kind of, direct to certain levels of the things that we think are particularly important.
Daniel: And Miles, what is a Warden? Um, and what does your role involve as the Warden of New College?
Miles: I guess, um, collectively we people who head up Colleges are called Heads of House. Um, Warden stems from the Latin �custos� which means guardian, someone who looks after things. So, I suppose I�m the person who looks after everything at the end of a day, when everyone else has, you know, had their go. Um, so I chair all the college committees, but particularly governing body, um, which is the group of fellows who are responsible under law, under charity law, for the college. Um, I�m responsible for liaising with the students. I�m also responsible for our relationships with the University, but I also obviously, um, look after the fellows and the SCR, and the graduates, the MCR. Uh, and also our alumni, um, who are a very important part of our world. Because once you join New College, you never actually leave it so for the rest of your life you�re a member of something called the New College Society, it�s very active. Uh, and I have a role there tending and meeting people. And, ultimately, trying to persuade people to leave us some money at the end of the day. So there�s a fundraising role as well.
Daniel: And what�s your favourite bit about being the Warden of the College?
Miles: Actually, I enjoy all parts of it. Um, I think I enjoy the student part particularly, actually, to be honest. Um, it keeps you young. Um, it�s not always easy, we don�t always agree on everything. But 90% of the time we�re working in the same direction. It�s um, it�s quite sad to us when, after three or four years, a generation leaves because you kind of make friends with students in that period. Um, and you get a new crop coming in, you get to know them. Um, but we find the sort of cycle of, um, turnover of students one of the rhythms of our life. Um, and we look at the Freshers, you know, with great interest. You know, what are they going to be like this year? So I enjoy that but I think all parts of it are really rewarding if you put some effort into it.
Daniel: Paddy, you were successfully elected as JCR President last year. Why did you decide to apply to be the JCR President?
Paddy: Um, I think what I was looking for, I was shopping around a bit last year, playing different sports, getting involved in different societies, um, was something that I could sort of meaningfully put time into. I think with the JCR and with the College community, it�s very clear what you�re getting out from what you�re putting in. You�re very clearly able to impact a number of people�s lives, um, just within your College. Um, and make a meaningful, albeit in many ways small difference, to a decently large group of people. Um, I think it�s also something that you get a lot out of. I�ve always loved being a part of quite small communities, I live in quite a small village next to the sea called Bosham, a very beautiful place if you�d like to go visit.
Daniel: What was it called?
Paddy: It�s called Bosham, uh yeah, that�s worth clarifying for the microphone there. Um, but it�s a place where you kind of, when you walk down the street you know a few people, you see the neighbour�s dog, give them a little stroke, and I�ve quite enjoyed seeing a lot of the Warden�s dog recently, but uh, I think that�s the value of having a role in the College, is that you become a recognisable face and you learn lots more faces and you feel a part of something you might not in some other roles.
Daniel: Excellent reasons for wanting to be the JCR President. I would have given you my vote, if I�d had one. But, let�s go before New College now then. Um, and Miles, let�s find out a little more about you. So before you came to New College as a student, what was your childhood like? What was your school life like?
Miles: My childhood was spent mainly in Bedford, although I was born and my first years were spent in the north where my family come from. One half of me is still very much from the north. Um, my parents were not well off, um, but I was able to get a place at the local school, Bedford, which is a good school, which coincidentally had a relationship with New College which goes back to 1552. Uh, at school I became very passionate about history. I don�t really know why, but I did. I think partly because I was well taught. And I think, at that age, you respond to your teachers almost as much as to your subject matter. So I had a brilliant history teacher. Uh, he arranged a trip, um, of the lower sixth form to Oxford and we came to New College. And I thought, well this is the place I really want to apply to. And I applied, and I was lucky enough to get in. Um, I read History and I wouldn�t regret it for a moment. Um, I�m sure Paddy would agree with me, it�s actually a very good training to be a generalist. Um, so I�ve always thought of it as a great background for managers because you learn how to integrate different specialisms. So that was the story really, um, I would have stayed on and done research but my father couldn�t really afford to support me anymore so I went off into the wider world and became an ad-man, to my parent�s, well my mother�s horror, um, but um, to my great pleasure and I spent the rest of my life before I came back doing that.
Daniel: We�ll talk a bit more about that later on, but Patrick, what about you? What were you like in school?
Paddy: Um, I think I�m at Oxford, it would be remiss of me to say I was a bit of a wild child or a rebel in any way. But, I think at times delving on the teacher�s pet side of things. Um, I think at school, one of the things I value looking back, is I was able to kind of throw myself into a range of things. So like Miles was talking about History being a generalist thing, I think that�s probably why I was pushed towards history because I used to love trying to get involved in bits of student drama at school, and I played lots of sport, I played lots of rugby. Um, and, I sort of delved between lots of different bits. I think my childhood, I look back on quite a mismatch, but a really happy mismatch at being able to be a whole range of things. Um, and I think when I�ve done, come to New College my experience has been reflected in that again, is that, you can have a bit of an eclectic mix of different personalities and different hobbies and interests here, uh, that I�ve really enjoyed getting involved with again.
Daniel: So when did Oxford first come on to your radar then?
Paddy: See, it�s quite a tough one for me. I think probably again like Miles, it was something to do with a teacher. I think, importantly, history was also not really on my horizon for quite a while. My A levels, I did Maths, Chemistry, Economics, and History. So, um, it was no clear path for me, right as now there�s still no real clear path for me after History. But, um, it was a teacher who I really respected and got on really well with. I think they spoke to me as if I was more of an equal than a student, and had some really interesting conversations a lot more at the time about Politics, rather than History, but it was sort of an association with History was there, so I think probably towards the end of my lower sixth year is when I really started thinking about Oxford but obviously at that time it was Covid.
Daniel: Of course
Paddy: So, um, the kind of city walls were never really on my horizon, I�d never visited before I arrived on day one of Freshers Week.
Daniel: So that was the first time you�d ever been to New College?
Paddy: Yup
Daniel: The day that you turned up?
Paddy: Coming through that archway was a bit daunting
Daniel: Wow. So Miles, when you applied to Oxford was the application process, presumably it was different to the application process now? How did the applications work then?
Miles: Yeah, you had to do a written exam. Um, uh, and I think, if my memory serves me correctly you had to demonstrate in History proficiency in French and Latin, or French and German or Latin, um, because of the Prelims which were compulsory in the first term. So it was an exam and then it was an interview. And the interviews were pretty much like they are now, um, they seemed very daunting at the time but I�m still a believer in face-to-face interviews and I think it�s a great shame we�ve lost them and I hope they come back. Um, but I remember, um, in my interview one of the History tutors was more or less hiding behind the curtains, invisible to me, and so I thought there were two in the room, but there was a third in the room. About three quarters of the way into my interview, he pulled the curtains back and asked the most difficult question I can ever imagine; I mean it was a kind of a shock to the system. That would not be allowed now.
Daniel: No
Paddy: Well, I had a similar online experience in my interview, as two tutors had their cameras off and then halfway through, turning them on and appearing and then switching over, so I guess it�s on a similar vibe.
Miles: Same sort of thing
Daniel: Yeah
Miles: Yeah, but it was a little bit daunting but I think at the end of the day, it gave you a feeling, uh, and it tested you a bit on your ability to answer questions on the hoof. But I do remember being together with the other candidates and some of them got through as well and we became friends for the rest of our time here, and you�ve missed that experience, unfortunately.
Daniel: So how was your application process then Paddy? Because you mentioned it was Covid times. So, how did that work?
Paddy: It was all a bit strange, so uh, I think you kind of have, for a History student anyway, a summer of trying to get in some reading so you can quote some inspirational books that you�ve read in your personal statement. And then, there�s a HAT, which is a similar, an hour long, unseen history paper and then you have some interviews and you submit some written work which you discuss in that. So the online aspect was, um, a bit strange and probably less so than me. I�ve been able to come and live in New College and I�ve kind of got that experience afterwards. But for the 75% of people who don�t then get into Oxford, having that three days with a bunch of 17 / 18 year olds in Oxford, having an amazing time, is something that I missed out on and um, lots of people did. But the application, weirdly when it came to interview, I quite enjoyed the interview in some slightly masochistic way that you were a bit terrified and with History, it�s strange, um and something I�ve never been very good at is responding to a source that just gets put on a screen. And I had some map of the world from the 14th century or something that I tried to have something interesting to say about. But I think the History tutors as well kind of helped to guide you a bit and it�s there to test you but not to absolutely freak you out. So, it was quite a daunting process but I think one that I came out of having slightly taken something from and enjoyment from it, on the whole.
Daniel: So when you arrived in New College then, for the first time, you�ve never seen it before. What were your first impressions? Can you remember how you felt?
Paddy: So, I think any experience like that is not anticlimactic, I said like �I�m here now� and what�s, where to? What I do think really helped is having a bunch of second year students show me to my room and kind of help not have too many thoughts initially. Because if you�re just kind of left with too much time to sit there and take it all in, it might be a bit overwhelming but it�s kind of a place you�ve never experienced before, buildings that look ridiculously grand and amazing, but ones that as an Undergraduate fresher never entered then probably a little intimidating. I think I was taken in immediately by the energy of the place, uh kind of, before you get out of the car second years have got to you saying �can I help you with bags?� Can I help to show you where to get your Bod card, how to find your key?� Um, and people just seemed to be bustling around and, I don�t know, some kind of purpose in what they�re doing with their days. I quite like that. That�s a place I would learn to love in the way that people are energetic and moving around and there�s time for peace and calm, maybe in the Chapel or something like that. But there�s lots of energy, and that was immediately apparent.
Daniel: And I think that�s something that we always say to school groups that Shelby and I feel very proud of, is how well we look after our students because I started in this University 21 years ago now, um, and it�s vastly different in terms of the level of care and support that students get nowadays than it was back then. Um, Miles, how do you think the life of Undergraduates has changed since you were an Undergraduate at New College? Because academically, you know we mentioned that interviews are more or less the same, um, teaching won�t be vastly different, I wouldn�t imagine, but the actual life of an Undergraduate has changed enormously, so what do you think are the biggest changes that Undergraduates now experience?
Miles: Actually, I�m not sure it�s changed enormously to be honest with you. Just going back to what Paddy was saying about the arrivals; that�s changed slightly. So we were much more left to our own devices and I was unlucky enough to be housed outside the College in, more or less, the room which Paddy is living in now in New College Lane. So I wasn�t quite inside the College which was a bit odd to be a Fresher and a little bit outside. I think it�s a good thing we never do that anymore. Um, but we didn�t have brothers, sisters, aunts, mothers, fathers, et cetera. We were a bit more on our own. Um, and I think it�s a huge improvement now. When you arrive you feel as if you�re joining a family. Uh, I remember being completely flummoxed by the washing machines because I had never used one in my life before. And that was something where I caused mayhem by opening it in mid-cycle. I think the big difference has really come in the last twenty years with the advent of social media and a little bit before then with the advent of the mobile telephone. So when I was here, we were really isolated from our parents. There was one red telephone box on Longwall Street, and there was one pay-button phone just outside the beer cellar. That was it, and we never used them. So, I never spoke to my parents for the whole term. Um, I�d maybe send a postcard once every two weeks, and get a postcard from them every two weeks. But nowadays, there�s daily contact between a lot of parents and their kids. And then you have peer group contact as well. And then you also have tutors contacting you through social media. Whereas in my day, tutors used to write you a letter which they would put in a pidge. You know it would say �please come for a drink tomorrow at six o clock�. And then you�d have to send a letter back saying �yes, thank you very much� or �your essay hasn�t arrived, please send it�. It would all be done by letter. So that whole nature of communication has shifted. Um, that�s the really big change, I think.
Daniel: We should probably explain there as well, Miles you mentioned brothers and sisters, and uncles and aunts and things. They�re not actual members of your family who happen to be here, are they. Paddy, how does that work?
Paddy: When you arrive, you�re given a College family. So, you have a Mum and Dad, or a Dad and a Dad, or a Dad and three Mums. Um, it�s a little bit unorthodox and there�s no real set rules but you basically have one parent who�s married to another number of people who mean you then have siblings as well. Um, and they�re there to ensure a smooth transition. They tend to be from your subject so they give you, kind of, tips and tricks on how to get through Freshers Week and that kind of mad weekend afterwards where you might be a little hungover still and have an essay due on Monday morning. Um, and then also, to take you for a drink, take you to dinner, and kind of check in on you and make sure everything�s going ok.
Daniel: Which I don�t think you get in many other universities at all, do you? That kind of support system that�s informal really isn�t it. So, Paddy, in terms of being JCR President this year, what are your priorities? What do you want to achieve?
Paddy: I think, as I said earlier, the kind of synthesis of it is we want to make is somewhere anybody would love to live in. I think it�s slightly, if you approach what the JCR should be with a veil of ignorance, not knowing what subject you�re going to be, where you�re going to come from, you want to know the place you�re going into is going to be somewhere you�re just going to love to live. Um, the academic side isn�t really to do with us, that�s sort of Miles and his team, but really we�re about how much you�re going to get out of the social scene and the vibrancy of what life in New College is like. And there are a number of things that fall within that. I think one of the things we�re particularly passionate about this year and I think for the last few years at New College, is making sure sort of the outreach, and I know Dan you work a lot with that, is really thriving and that�s partly things like this, things like advertising the great things that New College has to offer, the great schemes we�re running. But then also to when people arrive we make sure we�re an entirely inclusive unity. Um, from a personal perspective, there�s one thing I�m working on this year along with a couple of other people at New College, is that for the last few years, New College has pioneered, or with a couple of other Colleges who have now ceased doing it, is redistributing our leftover food um to the sort of homeless and vulnerable communities that live in Oxford. Um, so if there�s one thing I can look back on as having been done in my year, is that we�re hopefully going to get another 15 colleges on board with that. Um, and we�re going to work with a local charity and have a regular distribution, not just going around and handing out semi warm food to the people that we can find, but we�ll have regular distribution points that more can kind of spring off that, I think. If there�s one thing I look back on having been set up, that would be it.
Daniel: It�s a great idea. So how does that work?
Paddy: So what we do is, we immediately, our Catering Manager, Brian Cole and his team, any leftover food, they package it in takeaway containers and we take it and try and keep it hot. Um, and currently, we just know roughly where people are likely to be and we walk the streets with it. Um, the next step is having five or six colleges per night, take their leftover food to a set distribution point so that we know every night we�re going to have sufficient provision. We can�t just sort of go, one night we might not have enough Colleges, so if some don�t have enough left overs, enough will, so that would be a more humane way of doing things then people know where it�s going to be, they can come to you, you�re not going, kind of, tapping their shoulder and saying here�s some, at any hour we think is convenient for us. So I think it�s partly better provision, but it�s partly just a more consistent and humane provision.
Daniel: That�s a very meaningful legacy to leave behind. Well done. Um, Miles and I suppose in a similar vein, so the Warden of New College only has an appointment on a fixed term. You�ve got another four years ahead of you. What are the main things that you want to achieve in that time?
Miles: Uh, first thing, is actually very similar to Paddy, which we�ll also be working together on, which is a relationship with a Primary School in a really poor part of Oxford. And some of these Primary School kids very rarely come into the centre of Oxford, it�s alien territory for them. So, it�s a project to develop relationships, which you�re working on as well. And to try and break down some of those, I call them glass barriers, because they�re a parallel to glass ceilings. More generally, we�ve got a major capital programme going on at the moment, which is to finish the new quadrangles, the Gradel Quadrangles. And they are on target, on budget, they open next year, next September. Um, that new building also allows us to do something very interesting, which is to house a world first; which is the world�s first research centre into charities. Um, and we�ve just succeeded in getting a 10 million pound foundation donation to kick that off. Um, charities, of which we are one, and there are a quarter of a million or more in the UK, uh, are really important. They underpin the third sector in this country. The third sector being not the private, not the public sector. Um, but they�re very understudied. But this research institute, which will be housed in the Gradel Quadrangles, will seek to address some of those issues. So certainly it�s a major objective for me in the next four years to get that up and going. We�re going to be recruiting the Academic Director next year. Paddy�s mentioned access and outreach, we�ve really got more work to do on that. And, uh, I want to get behind that. More generally, I think it�s a question of just ensuring that all the bits of the College continue to flourish. And, you know, just keeping good feelings going really. That�s ultimately what my job is. Um, so I always think, in the morning if I wake up in a bad mood, then that will probably translate itself into the rest of the College so I jolly well need to wake up in a good mood. So I need to keep in a good mood for the next four years.
Daniel: Good, everyone will hold you to that now.
Miles: That�s right, yeah!
Daniel: So let�s talk about New College for one last question. And it�s one that I ask all of our graduates who come back. What�s your favourite thing about New College? To each of you.
Paddy: My favourite thing, I think, is that you can have an amazing, vibrant social life and it�s sort of a brilliant place to live whilst being pretty excellent, even by Oxford standards. Um, it will push you in your limits, in academics, in sports, in music, but it�s not a pressurised, slightly depressing kind of pot of just excellence, it also is just a lovely, quite relaxed, chilled out and energetic place to live.
Miles: I suppose my favourite thing is not dissimilar. It combines tradition and modernity. And you can see that particularly in the research interests of some of our fellows, you can see it in the sort of careers that students go on to. And I suppose my favourite place in the College is the Cloisters. Because you can just go in there when you�re all stressed and het up and just sit down and you somehow soak up the peace, and all seems ok again.
Paddy: My favourite place in the College is the footsteps, the steps of the Warden�s lodgings, where Reglise lives. On the way to my weekly meeting.
Miles: Laughter
Paddy: I�m really missing my dog as well. So I�m a couple of minutes late because I sit there and..
Daniel: We should probably mention that Reglise is a dog. There�s not somebody just lying at the foot of the stairs. And I mentioned at the start that you�re both involved with the English Speaking Union. What�s that?
Miles: The English Speaking Union is an organisation which was set up, really as a kind of debating club between countries of the Commonwealth but which has extended beyond the Commonwealth now to many other countries. And has extended its role from debating to a general interest in spoken communication. Um, so I was chair of it but when I was, unfortunately stricken with covid at the end of last year, I had to resign but I�ll probably get back involved with it again at some stage. Um, it�s about now promoting oracy, what we call oracy, uh and if you think of literacy and numeracy as fairly well understood concepts, oracy, the ability to speak, the ability to convince people through argument, is not so well understood and so increasingly the ESU is moving towards and organisation that seeks to create funding to put into schools with high deprivation indices to help kids have the confidence to speak, and that in turn helps them to get into University.
Daniel: And Paddy, what was your experience of it?
Paddy: The ESU is slightly something that sparked my interest in debating, so I was lucky enough to take part in an ESU competition a couple of times. The ESU MACE competition which brings three people from each school together and you do a debate and you kind of get together with people from other schools, and it�s a pre-prepared debate competition. From there, I ended up sort of setting up my own little thing which has very similar ambitions, um, to the ESU. But yeah, it�s something that I think is kind of hugely valuable as a skill for anyone to learn. And it�s something that I really benefitted from in my school years.
Daniel: And do you think it�s benefitted you in terms of being an undergraduate, studying History where, I suppose, weekly in a tutorial you have to present an argument orally don�t you?
Paddy: I think in my time spent debating in school is probably the most valuable life-skill that I learnt. And I think it�s critical thinking like you�ve never had it before when someone has just given a speech, um, and you�re up having to do five minutes replying to them, and they stand up and ask you a question, with ten people watching, it�s a pretty nerve-wracking experience and you�ve got to think on your feet pretty quickly and I think it�s a huge confidence boost, being able to speak in front of people like that.
Daniel: And focusing on History now, Miles, when you were an Undergraduate, what periods of history were you most interested in when studying here, and have those opinions changed since you�ve been a graduate of History?
Miles: Yeah, in English History, I was an unreconstructed Tudor historian, partly because it was so well taught by Penry-Williams, who was the Fellow of the College there. And I just loved the raging academic debates then about the nature of the Tudor revolution in government, what was it? Did it exist? And it brought all the academic debates between Whig and Tory historians in sharp contrast together. Um, and that slightly extended into Stuarts and actually Hanoverians because we also had a very good 18th century historian, and the 18th century in England is a vast, neglected desert so far as study is concerned. Um, and then in, what we call the rest of the world, um, I think I was most interested in 19th century history which, for us, was really the second half of the Crimean system up until the, well actually up until the outbreak of the second world war. So my special subject was on the very narrow causology of the second world war, from March to September 1939. Um, subsequently, um, I think because I spent the vast part of my life after New College abroad, not in the College, I became more interested in the histories which weren�t taught then, and even aren�t taught now, particularly Chinese history because I was in China for 15 years. Uh, and there, particularly the history of North Eastern China which is the area of China which butts on to the area of Japanese influence, Korean, Dong Bei, and how in particular that all dissolved in the 1930s into the chaos of the second world war in Asia. And then also American history in the 18th century, so I�ve become a bit more global. And of course the good thing, in a way, is that the syllabus has become more global. It was very narrowly anglo-centric when I was here.
Daniel: So, Paddy what about you?
Paddy: See, I�ve never, until I got to New College, really been a historian by trade. I think that sort of reflects my interest in history, and it�s quite sort of broad. I�ve always said I�m interested in the history of ideas, and I�m still yet to quite work out what I mean by that. Um, so I don�t really expect anyone listening to but I did a really enjoyable paper in Political Philosophy at the end of last year. I think my History tutor had to keep reminding me it wasn�t a debating speech and I had to ground it in some kind of history at some point. Uh, yeah, but sort of how people engage with ideas, I think I found the history of religion particularly interesting, how religions are formed, how they get bought into, the sort of passion and believed in. And so, not quite as specific as Miles but yeah, a bit more sort of general.
Daniel: So what core papers do you study now in History?
Paddy: So I�m currently doing what we call EWF 14. So, you have to tick off three time periods, so I did last year, an ancient paper; the sort of history of the world and Europe from 370 to 900. Um, and then I did a British paper, from 1330 to 1550, so sort of wars with France, wars with the Roses, um, the Black Death which was particularly poignant at that time. Uh, then this year I�m doing two modern papers, so the British History of the 20th century.
Daniel: And Miles, one of the reasons why people might be reluctant to study an Arts subject or a Humanities subject at University, and I speak with some sympathy here as a geographer but not a historian, is that they don�t see a career path at the end of a degree. So, firstly, what did you do immediately after graduating from New College, and then secondly what skills did History equip you with in the world of work?
Miles: When I graduated, I didn�t know what I wanted to do. Um, but the person who ran the careers advisory service then, as now actually, was a Fellow of the College. And he rather despaired of me because he said �well you should try Accountancy�, no, not interested in that, �try Law�, no, not interested in that, well what are you interested in? Well, I like people. Well, there are only a couple of jobs where you can work with people, you could be a teacher, you could be a journalist, or you could go into advertising. What�s advertising? And he described it briefly, I�m not sure I really understood it, but got me an interview with an advertising agency, and I was looking late in the day at that time in the so called milk round um, for Undergraduates, and I got the job and I just accepted it because I wanted to focus on finals. I didn�t want to be bothered by anything else. So I started off in advertising, but as soon as I had my first week, I realised that I did enjoy it as it�s a business where the only asset is people. So it�s a bit like running a football team actually. Um, you win matches if you have good team players, and you get good team players by attracting them to you. You�re successful or not depending on the quality of your team. Um, and that�s what I did then for the rest of my career. To the first part of your question, the view that education has to be vocational, I profoundly disagree with. So I think there�s a massive misapprehension, it actually doesn�t matter what you study here. And I speak from the perspective of a person who once employed 25 000 people. Uh, we recruited from all sorts of academic disciplines. Actually, when you�re an employer and you look at the CV of someone who�s coming out of University, you�re not in the slightest interested in the subject, you hardly pay any attention at all. You�re interested in whether that person�s mind is well trained. And that is what actually education is about. So, um, History, Classics, Modern Languages, Geography, they all train the mind in a very very effective way. History, in particular, I think is good for managers. Um, because ultimately through history you understand a little bit about how decisions were taken in the past. Now, they may be influenced by ideas, they may be influenced by economics, they may be influenced by all sorts of things, but at the end of the day, someone there is involved in a decision making process. And history casts a light on that, so I think it helps you make better decisions. I don�t believe in people who say, �you learn from history�, you know, we can see, we live in this world which is a complete mess, we don�t but a little bit in life you can learn how to make better decisions through having a historical perspective.
Daniel: And have you had any thoughts about what you want to do Paddy?
Paddy: I think, um, if you asked me that question 10 years ago I�d have told you I want to be an actor or a chef. A couple of years after that, then a rugby player, and then a couple of years after that, a human rights barrister. So, I think it�s been through a bit of an evolution and probably going full circle and a chef sounds quite nice at the moment.
Miles: Yeah, very good.
Paddy: But, um although the current state of my dinners is probably not attesting much to that. Being self-catered for the first time in University is taking a bit of a toll. Um, I have always though, I think, probably part of the role in the JCR is like Miles, working with people is hugely important but in a way that you can kind of see the impact that you�re having quite clearly. There�s many ways that lots of Oxford graduates go and do fantastic things but often things that are quite abstracted from the people they�re working with. You might go and work in banking, I think consultancy is maybe a bit different uh and often times Law as well, you�re a bit detached from the people that you�re working, in some ways, to benefit. So I think in something that is quite personal. Uh, but again, very limited idea of what that really means in practice.
Daniel: And I think that�s entirely normal for your stage of an Undergraduate degree at the moment, not really knowing what you want to do. Um, but Miles, you mentioned there being responsible for 25 000 employees at one point, do you miss that business world at all?
Miles: I miss somehow the energy of travelling around, visiting our offices, visiting different countries. At one time, I was travelling 80% of my time. I got to know the world, I mean there are very few major countries I�ve not been to. And I got to know those countries quite well. Um, and you get to know them at a level or so, where you develop some interesting insights into them. I developed a lot of friends, who I can�t see now, because I can�t just hop on a plane to Bogota or to Hanoi, and you know, it�s not part of my life anymore. So that side of it, I do miss. Um, I miss also in a slight way, um, the relationships with clients. Um, there was always a joke in advertising that this would be a wonderful business if it wasn�t for the clients. Um, because they do cause you agony. At times, you wake up in the middle of the night, worrying that you�re going to lose them and so on. But at the end of the day, there�s some kind of interesting relationship, um painful a little bit, but pleasurable often, between you and your client. Um, which, when it�s removed is a gap. Um, so those things I miss a bit. You know, people often say, well isn�t it, um, very different being in a College. Um, and the answer is no. Because our governing body is very like a board, in a large company. And people have a misperception of business, they think that, you know, the CEO, you know, creates a policy and then the board accepts it. That�s just totally untrue. Uh, and it�s the same in the College. Uh, you know, I�m a facilitator, I�m a catalyst, I�m not someone who fundamentally makes decisions. I can try and push people a bit in a direction or another, um, but that�s it. Um, and academics are a bit like advertising, creative people. You know, they have pride of intellect, and uh, they want space to do their best work, and so on. So part of my job is just giving them that space.
Daniel: And of the advertising campaigns that you worked on throughout your career, which one are you most proud of?
Miles: Well, that is a very difficult question. I think in the early days, I was very proud of one for Cornetto. Because we launched..
Daniel: Now I mention this to my five year old daughter when we have a cornetto and I sing her the song.
Miles: Well, I was there in Venice when that commercial was being filmed, as a wet behind the years trainee, having had a disastrous journey over carrying the cornettoes, in an ice box with dry ice. Um, and there was an air strike in Paris so our plane was diverted to Paris actually, we couldn�t, there was a point we couldn�t carry on flying over French air space so I arrived in Paris airport on the afternoon of a rugby international, which was also not helpful, with a pile of melting cornettoes. And I had to find somewhere to store them in a hotel at the airport, at Charles de Gaulles, and then work out how on earth I was able to get dry ice to carry them down there.
Paddy: Whose big plan was it just to bring the cornettoes for a major filming shoot in a little ice box? It sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Miles: No, it was normal, I mean there were models as well, but it was normal. And, um, there wasn�t the ability to do it, these were very new products. They had to come from Gloucester. You couldn�t, there was nowhere in Italy to supply them from. And you can�t, there�s a point where you can�t fake, you know, ice-cream shoots, you have to have someone licking something real. Anyway, so that, yeah, Cornetto. Uh, I think later on in life, uh, probably the work we did on IBM, um, at various stages. Um, which helped rescue IBM from being a dinosaur into being something relevant, in terms of owning e-commerce, um, at least for a while. Not so much now. Um, that was quite an interesting global campaign because we allowed different countries to create their own versions of it, it was not global imposed, it was global plus local, glocal, as we used to call it.
Daniel: And, the final question, um, Miles is again directed at you. But, an average Oxford degree takes up just 72 weeks of your life, um, History included. If you could relive those 72 weeks again, what, if anything, would you do differently? And what one piece of advice would you offer to Paddy as he embarks on, um, the rest of his Oxford Undergraduate degree?
Miles: Well, I�m not sure I would offer Paddy any advice, just keep calm, and, you know I was JCR President so I know what it�s like. And he�s unlucky because he�s got a committee of 30, and I had a committee of 12. And he has three meetings a term, and I had one, I think. Um, so my advice would be to try to minimise the amount of inputs and never, on any account, let it get you down.
Daniel: We�ll see you in the Cloisters a lot more now, Paddy.
Miles: Yeah!
Daniel: Taking some deep breaths
Miles: Yeah, you know, when they get snarky, just let it wash off your back. Um, but I very much regret that I didn�t go to more lectures. I think lectures were a bit more important in those days. Um, but in those days we had people like AJP Taylor, we had AL Rouse, we had Trevor Roper all lecturing, and I hardly went to any of them. I went to one. Uh, and that�s such a terrible shame. Um, so I was just focused on tutorials, you know I had this idea in my mind that it was best to get through life with economy of effort not over-effort, and I was having a fun time. So lectures just dropped off my map. And I think there is the ability to wander off the set menu as it were, and to go to other subject�s lectures. Uh, and I never did that. Actually, I wish I could do it now. And when I was a student, there was a list published in the Lodge of this week�s lectures. And somehow now because it�s lost in the internet, I never know what�s happening when. But that would be my regret.
Daniel: Well thank you very much to Miles Young and Patrick Mayhew for joining me today and we hope you enjoyed that podcast.