72 Weeks

Daniel: Hello and welcome to the fifth episode of 72 Week and the first episode of Season 2, which we�re very very pleased to be recording today. My name is Daniel and I�m the Head of Outreach and Communications here at New College, which is part of the University of Oxford. And, if you haven�t listened before, this Podcast is called 72 Weeks as that�s the average length of an Undergraduate degree course at Oxford University. And, each episode, I�ll be talking to two people about how life can change, and indeed has changed, during that relatively short period of time. Each episode, the people interviewed will have a common thread, or indeed threads, that they share with the other person and this week I�m delighted to be joined by current New College Undergraduate, Dani, and New College graduate, Maddie. And my two guests have several things in common. Both study, and indeed studied, Biology at New College, both are women in STEM, both are northerners, both have been involved in New College�s Step-Up Programme, and both attended the UNIQ Summer School. So, a lot in common and welcome and good morning Dani and Maddie.
Maddie: Hello!
Daniel: Hello! Um, so you�ve got a lot in common but I�m trying to remember, did you two overlap whilst you were here?
Dani: Yes. While I was in my first year, Maddie was in her third year.
Daniel: Oh, OK and then Covid hit
Maddie: Yeah
Daniel: So Maddie, your last year was a bit weird wasn�t it?
Maddie: Yeah, it was sort of like doing my exams in my room and it meant I didn�t get to say goodbye to you. Sorry!
Dani: Yeah, I know
Daniel: So say hello and goodbye to each other today!
Maddie: Yes, that�d be a nice closure.
Daniel: Cool, um, so Maddie we�ll start with you. Can you just tell me a little bit about your childhood, your school days, where you grew up, that sort of thing.
Maddie: Yeah, so I�m from a town probably on the edge of the north, as people from the far north would say, called Macclesfield. Uh, and I went to, sort of, school there and the idea of Oxford was always a bit of a pipedream; it was like that southern place, maybe near London, that some people maybe went to. Uh, and then I went to a sixth form college in Stockport, to a lovely place called Aquinas. Yeah, they sort of like, on my first day were like �ooh, are you considering Oxbridge?� Nah, that�s not possible. You know, I live sort of on a council estate, in like an ex council house, with my Dad. I�m not really sure that�s our vibe. But, um, you know I was very lucky to have, you know, my parents are separated but both very supportive so when I was like, oh, I�m going to have a go for this, they were like �oh, alright, no idea what that�s like�. My Dad�s a photographer and my Mum is a part-time Nurse, um yeah, and my Dad didn�t go to University and my Mum was the first person in her family to go to University. Um, so she had a bit of an idea of what that process was like. Whereas my Dad had no idea. Yeah, God bless him, he was very supportive but he had no idea, he was like �where is Oxford?� But yeah, so encouragement from my Mum and my Dad, but yeah it was a new experience to apply.
Daniel: And Dani, what about you? What were you like in school?
Dani: I just went to my local primary school. Um, I was never the most intelligent kid. Then, High School was pretty much the same up until, I think, about like Year 10 or Year 11 where I really, like, started to you know find my feet and I was like, actually I really enjoy just the Sciences. I do just enjoy studying, um, so that�s when I really got my head down and, uh, sort of stayed on at the High School um because it was also a sixth form and I, again, I always really loved the Sciences but Maths really scared me so I did Biology, Chemistry, and Geography instead. And then it was after like a chat with my school�s careers adviser. He was like, if you want to you could get into Oxbridge. And I was like, uh no, I�m good thanks. I�ll stay up north and like I was planning on going to Manchester or Newcastle. But then I can�t remember what changed really. I had a really supportive teacher who like really pushed me. And I was just looking at courses when I decided that for Biology, I just looked at the Oxford course and I was like, this looks like it really suits me and so that was when I was like, actually I do want to go here. And I guess, similar to Maddie, my parents didn�t have like much clue about, um, the whole University thing. Neither of them went to Uni. My Dad is also a photographer, which is really strange.
Maddie: Oh no way!
Daniel: Wow
Maddie: That�s wild
Dani: Another, like, connection. And then my Mum works in the school office.
Daniel: Oh, I thought you were going to say she�s a part-time Nurse then. That would have been amazing.
Dani: But, yeah, none of my family have ever really been to Uni so I was just like the first one so I really relied upon, like, my teachers in school and they were always like forwarding me stuff. Um, stuff like UNIQ and, um, then once I�d found out about UNIQ I did a lot of, like, searching myself for like Summer Schools and Open Days that they�d pay for your travel and sort of tried to do as much of that as possible.
Daniel: And we�ve mentioned, you know, both of you enjoyed the Sciences and Biology there. And whenever we talk to school groups in New College, we say, right, well the first decision that you�ve got to get right is the subject that you want to study at University, that�s the most important thing. So when did you both decide then that Biology was the degree course for you?
Dani: I�m really not sure. I always knew that Biology was my favourite science, um, at GCSE. I really enjoyed studying it but I also, I don�t know, ever since I was a kid, which is very like stereotypical, like I just loved animals. Um, I loved like nature documentaries. Um, my favourite thing to do when I went to my auntie�s house was to sit and, she went on safari like twenty or thirty years ago, and I used to sit and like pour over her safari photos and I was like �that�s so cool�. Um, you know. I just really had, like, a deep interest and it just sort of went on from there.
Maddie: I completely agree about the subject that you love. For me, it wasn�t like an �a-ha� moment. It was a slow, sort of realisation. A similar thing, like, um when I go on a walk now with my partner. It takes me like, you have to add on like Maddie time, like 1.5 times the expected walk because I�m like �oh, there�s a red kite over there� �oh there�s a grasshopper� and they�re like �oh my gosh, we need to get somewhere!� Um, yeah, and it�s just like that interest in the natural world and that could be nature documentaries and for me it tends to be a lot of sitting and watching things, and birds, and watching them interact and how fascinating that was. And, yeah, I was slowly looking at courses and I was like �I really like the look of the Biology ones. Those modules look cool. Animal behaviour � woah; Ecology � past, present, and future � wow, that�s like you know palaeobiology � that�s so cool. Uh, and then eventually, was sort of well, go on then. And it was a similar thing, being like I wonder if there�s that many job prospects but decided that, um, doing a subject that I will enjoy will make me probably dive into it more and therefore probably do better and have more opportunities and, you know, more career opportunities after that, which happened to be the case.
Daniel: So, what does the Oxford Biology degree involve? Because lots of people who think �Biology�, think of the things you did in school, um, and that�s not really what a Biology degree is, is it? Um, so what sort of things do you study then in an Oxford Biology degree?
Dani: So, yeah, as I mentioned I really love the course because the first year is so broad. And they try and cover, um, everything. I think the one thing they leave off that is quite heavy on GCSE and A level Biology is like Human Biology.
Maddie: Yeah
Dani: We didn�t really do much of that, like the working of the heart or the lungs, stuff like that.
Daniel: Which is what everyone thinks of because that�s what they do in school.
Dani: Yeah, no, that�s more like I guess Medicine or Biomedical.
Maddie: I suppose A level Biology is prepping people for Biomed, Biochem, Medicine, Biology, or Environmental Sciences even so it�s got to cover all that.
Dani: Yeah, um, but then yeah, so the modules are sort of split into, we do a bit of Biochemistry, um, which is sort of like looking at how, like, biomolecules behave and interact with each other so, like, enzymes come to mind, um amino acids. Um, I don�t know, I�m not a Biochemist. Um, and then, ecology which is, sort of, like the natural world and how, um, the components in the natural world interact. Um, evolution, how things are changing or how things have changed and then, um, we also do a lot of like, disease biology and has been really interesting and has been really relevant.
Maddie: Absolutely
Dani: And then what happens is as you move through second and third year, you�re able to go like �oh, I really like that but I didn�t like that so I�m not going to, I�m going to drop that module and pick up these ones� so I much preferred other courses, there�s like the evolution, there�s one called �Grand Green Challenges�, that was really fun, looking at crop productivity and, like, the issues we�re going to face in the future. Um, and then I did disease biology as well, and an ecology module.
Daniel: Wow. So if you are worried about what job you might do, you�ve got quite a few things there that are going to be, well, incredibly and increasingly relevant in the world. And part of it, Maddie, when you did your degree you had to do a dissertation didn�t you? Because, you�re probably too modest to say but you did very well in that and won a prize. I can remember what it was on but do you want to tell everybody, what was your dissertation on?
Maddie: Um, so I was on an island for my dissertation. An island off the coast of Wales, called Skomer Island um sort of near Milford Haven that way, Pembrokeshire way. And yeah, working with these birds called Manx shearwaters which are beautiful seabirds. Um, if, yeah, look a little bit like guillemots and razorbills um, sort of, in colouring. Um, they look a bit like flying penguins � probably get yelled at for saying that by everyone in the department but they do look a bit like flying penguins. And, yeah, they�re beautiful little things. There are massive colonies in Wales. So yeah, looking at, sort of them and whether, sort of, light pollution around the island from, sort of, the tankers and the oil ships who are coming into Milford Haven were, sort of, affecting the behaviour of the young fledglings who were leaving their nests for the first time and about to fly off, uh, into the sea. Um, and they�re amazing birds. They sort of have this, like, you know they�re being fed by their parents and then suddenly, one day, they jump off a cliff and fly to South America. And, somehow, they know where they�re going. Um, it�s mad. Um, and yeah, so they�re absolutely phenomenal creatures because you�re there and you�re like �wow, you�re tiny and yet you�re going to be able to find your way to South America in like, four days. What? Um, yeah, so sort of like looking at light pollution and how that sort of affected their behaviour. But the actual dissertation I ended up writing was more about, sort of, the methodology we used, um, in that sort of study about light pollution and whether it works and whether we could repeat it. Um, so it was quite nice, sort of, looking at both the effect of light pollution and whether we could repeat this um, whereas, sort of, the Phd student I was working with went on to go and do further stuff about light pollution using that methodology and others. Um, an amazing experience. One thing to note is that they are, when they�re on land, they come in at night when they�re breeding. So, my fieldwork started at about 7.00pm and ended at about 5.00am in the morning.
Daniel: Right�
Maddie: Yes, um, yeah
Daniel: In the summer though..
Maddie: In the summer, yeah, but that�s you know an end of Wales, west Wales summer so it�s a bit wet, and a bit cold but it was still amazing, like it was really really like, um
Daniel: Character building
Maddie: Yeah, well yeah, I think, you know, I sort of say it to be like �oh woe is me� but actually I loved it. Because it was this amazing experience to be like, you know, out there in the dark with only these birds. People call them the devil birds because they make, like, this bizarre noise that I�m not going to do an impression of on a podcast.
Daniel: Oh, please do
Maddie: No, google it, Manx shearwater devil bird, it�s a brilliant noise and it�s just like a cacophony and you�re like, �I cannot believe this is real�. It�s magic, and it�s just dark, beautiful noise.
Daniel: So you wouldn�t be able to sleep anyway, if you had to stay there.
Maddie: No, actually that�s true. I had like one night off and there was no sleep.
Daniel: Yeah, and Dani, do you have to do a dissertation? Because your course is different now, we mentioned that didn�t we. You do a fourth year, Maddie you didn�t have that opportunity. Um, so what does your fourth year involve? Is it that sort of thing, or?
Dani: Yeah, so it�s now an integrated Masters. Um, so I do a year doing my own research and then at the end of it I have to do a dissertation and, um, a sort of presentation on what I�ve done for the year and like present my results.
Daniel: Any ideas what you�re going to do?
Dani: Um, yeah, so we picked, um, at the end of last year, uh, in our last term, um, after we�d finished all our work and done our exams. I was very lucky in that I got my first choice and I�m working, um, with a lab group who study mainly birds um
Daniel: Another thing in common!
Maddie: Be after my job next!
Dani: So there is a big great tit population in Wytham Woods which is probably like, a half an hour cycle outside of Oxford and it�s, um, an amazing population study because they have information on the birds since the 60s and they have, like, hundreds of nest boxes everywhere so they have so many data points on like, what bird group breeds where, how many chicks did they have, when did they breed, you know, how many fledglings, um, just everything, um, on the birds. And so, what I�m doing is, unlike Maddie I�m not going to be doing any fieldwork, mine�s mainly, um, an analysis project. Um, I�m going to go through that data set and look at, um, because great tits are really interesting because they�re really good at timing their breeding to the correct time of the, um, the environment so when the seasons change and like because of climate warming, it might be like warming earlier or later, you know the weather being a bit more, like, uh, just like drastic and like unpredictable. But yeah, essentially they know when to breed, uh, because of cues around the forest and I�m looking at whether or not birds as they age will get better at reading them cues or worse. Like, do they learn or do they end up surnessing and falling behind? And how does that affect, like, the number of chicks they have and..
Maddie: That�s really cool. I want to read that when you�re done.
Dani: I�m very excited to crack on with that.
Daniel: Cool. Can you teach an old bird new tricks?
Dani: Yes
Daniel: That could be your title!
Dani: I�m going to steal that.
Maddie: Brilliant
Daniel: So before you did all those sorts of things, we obviously mentioned you did your A levels. You know, grew up in Macclesfield and Leeds, um, now the north of England is an underrepresented region, in parts, here in Oxford University. Um, and you�ve mentioned briefly before, but why did you choose then to pick New College in particular when you chose to apply to Oxford?
Maddie: Um, so I was on the UNIQ Summer School, as you mentioned before, um, which I�m not sure if everybody knows, so a bit of context. It�s basically, yeah, like a summer school for students from under-represented backgrounds at Oxford, um, often like low-income or first generation. Um, and yeah, it�s all expenses paid week to experience the University to encourage people to apply who might not have done otherwise. So I did that and I met my, well, the New College tutor called Ashleigh Griffin. I was like, oh wow, she�s really cool and she liked, kind of, similar things to me. She�s very hot on her evolutionary biology, um, and she was, yeah, just really really passionate and really just enjoyed talking about the subject, as do all the tutors, but, um yeah, she was really interested in stuff that I wanted to learn more about and she was, sort of, talking in that week about �oh here are some cool theories� that I ended up learning about during my degree and I was like �I want to find out more about that�, �I want to be tutored by this amazing woman�. Um, so yeah, I applied to New College because that�s where she was. Um, I think that�s often generally a top tip that I have, sort of, when applying is that, like, um, sort of applying to a College whose tutors are interested in stuff that you enjoy, uh, can be really useful. It doesn�t make a difference, you�ll be able to study whatever you want, no matter what but it can be nice to have someone you know, who you can chat to about projects and that. And you can reach out to anyone in the University but it�s nice, it�s quite nice to have someone there to ask.
Daniel: And you do some quite unusual things with Ashleigh don�t you? Some quite like cool tutorials and stuff.
Maddie: Yup, you dress up as pirates at the beginning of your degree, in the first term. And you have to write an essay about something biology and pirate-related. So I wrote things on the giant squid which I ended up writing an examined piece about so actually it ended up that the pirate tutorial was one of the most useful tutorials I ever had.
Daniel: So what�s the connection with pirates then?
Maddie: Dunno
Dani: The kraken almost
Maddie: Oh my connection with the kraken, I thought you meant Ashleigh�s.
Daniel; Yeah, why do you have to dress up as pirates?
Dani: Oh, I don�t know
Maddie: No idea. A whim of Ashleigh�s.
Daniel: We�ll have to ask Ashleigh.
Dani: It�s become like a weird New College tradition.
Maddie: Yeah
Dani: And then she always posts us in our pirate outfits outside the office for all the other biologists to see. It�s really fun.
Maddie: Yeah, a little collage.
Daniel: Nice. Yesterday, our new Freshers arrived at New College, um, looking either a mixture of excited or nervous, as you�d expect. Um, Dani, when you arrived three years ago, what were your first impressions of New College?
Dani: Uh, I was absolutely terrified. Um, I remember my Mum and Auntie came to drive me down. And they gave me my room key and, um, they were like �oh good luck with that, it�s the highest room in College�. And so my room was essentially at the top of like the turret, um, up over 100 stairs. Um, it was very beautiful, it was just like, I didn�t expect to be living here. And then there were just like people everywhere and I was just a bit like, overwhelmed, so I was like um �I�m just going to stay in my room. I�m going to unpack my things. And then, I remember the first night, um, the College is always really good at putting stuff on. We had staircase pizza, um, because in New we don�t really have like Halls, everyone�s on a staircase. Um, we had staircase pizza, um which was a fun chance to meet like all my new neighbours and like get to know everyone. And then, um, we did staircase pres before like the club night that we were all going to go on which was again really fun, and I remember I hosted which I was really excited about.
Daniel: I�m glad you said that you were terrified because I was talking to Shelby, our Outreach Officer, yesterday. And, I mean I started in Oxford 21 years ago this year, um, and I said �oh, I remember just being absolutely terrified, like so nervous about it�. And she was like �oh no I wasn�t, I was really excited, I couldn�t wait to get going�. And I was like �really?� I found it really scary at first. Maddie, did you?
Maddie: Yes!
Daniel: Oh, ok, good.
Maddie: Absolutely, it was a similar thing of like being given your key and sort of wandered up to my room and was like �right, now what?� Um, this is a bit scary. Like, you know, New College is beautiful but, like, I�m used to sort of, you know, relatively dingey school corridors and a very grey Macclesfield. Um, so it was like, oh my gosh, where am I? And yeah, we also had staircase pizza that evening which was a really really nice way to meet new people, um, like on your staircase and that was it, we bonded over that and then, sort of you know, then you start to. The brilliant thing about the College community is that you know you get introduced to loads of people and people don�t just disappear into the nether. You don�t bump into people and never see them again. You bump into someone at dinner and be like �oh they were nice� and then bump into them again a few days later. And that sort of happened with me, I got invited to do some drama stuff, acting stuff, which I didn�t do any of after, I just sort of thought I�d give it a go. Um, and yeah, someone who I�d met a couple of times was like �oh yeah, come along we�ve got sort of a role� and yeah, five years later I�m now best friends with all those people, one of them is my long-term partner, and yeah, like, it was absolutely wonderful. I think the thing that scared me most, to be honest, even more than meeting people was just being like �what if they�ve just made a mistake?� And I�m really bad at Biology, and actually, yeah, that all these people are geniuses, Einsteins, child prodigies, and I found A levels really quite hard, like I didn�t breeze through my A levels. Like, what if these people did? And this is just a challenge for them, and I�m just going to fall by the wayside. Um, I think that�s a very common feeling for a lot of people. Um, but the support of like tutors is really really wonderful because you get that, sort of, one-on-one support. And I used to be like, you know, oh a few weeks in �I really don�t understand this�. Ok, let�s have like ten minutes at the end and we can have a chat about it. And that was really really lovely and something that I think is quite unique to Oxford.
Daniel: Yeah, I always say to my Dad, because I always remember ringing him up in the first term and going, like, �it�s quite hard, Dad�, you know, I was used to be, I found A levels hard as well, but I remember going to him, like, �this is quite difficult, I don�t know if I can do this� and I remember he just went �Daniel, if it was easy everybody would do it�. And I was like, oh, OK, thanks Dad. That�s great. That�s really going to help me. Um, but, yeah, it is a massive change so I�m glad that you both found it as scary as I did.
Maddie: Validating!
Daniel: Yeah, um, and then I suppose Dani you started, you had a, you know, normal first term, relatively normal second term and then, well, everything went wrong didn�t it?
Maddie: Yeah, it all changed.
Daniel: So, how was that? How was being a student in your first year in a pandemic? How was that?
Dani: It was quite hard because I remember at the end of Hilary Term, so at the end of second term, everyone was just like �will we ever come back, and what�s going on?� And I was like, oh, of course we�re coming back, it�s so fine. I�ll see you all in, like, a couple of months. And then like, it slowly started getting worse and worse and worse and then there was the realisation that after having, because as soon as, like, um, like, my nervousness of like Freshers Week went away, I was like, I absolutely love this place and, you know, I don�t want to leave and I can�t wait to come back after, you know, the Summer and see all my like really close friends who I absolutely loved. And then there was just like, you know a gutting feeling of like I�m actually not going to see you guys until I don�t know when. Like because I didn�t know when we were going to come back, and have such a long time at home, um, whilst also trying to keep up with the Oxford workload. It was really hard because, I don�t know, I worked, it�s quite hard to work at home, um, when your family are like doing stuff but you have to still stick to your, like, 9 to 5 work routine. You still have essays to do. And it�s like, my parents are sitting down watching TV. I want to, you know, come and join them but I can�t.
Daniel: And then Maddie, you had a weird end didn�t you? I felt really sorry for your year group because your sort of experience just petered out really, didn�t it?
Maddie: There�s people I�ve never said goodbye to.
Daniel: Yeah
Maddie: Uh, which is really sad. Um, but yeah, it was like a similar thing. I remember leaving the library. I was in the library because I�d decided, you live out in third year for most of the time at New College, so I was in my third and final year, uh, and I lived out in Cowley. And all of my friends had gone apart from one of my housemates. So, we both decided to stay. Oh, we�ll see, we�ll ride this out. Like even if we are here for a long time, we�d like to be in Oxford and together. Um, and I was in the library and Boris made his announcement that lockdown was happening. And there was one other person and we just both looked over and went �well that�s it then isn�t it?� And then we left the library and I went to that person �I wonder if I�ll ever be back in here?� Surely I�ll be back in here, you know, by next term. And I haven�t been. I never did. It was really weird. I just walked out, walked home, we all had a bit of a laugh in our lockdown house and that was that. Um, but yeah, so I did my exams, my final exams from a bedroom in Cowley. Um, but luckily had a graduation in person and that meant I got to say goodbye to lots of my friends.
Daniel: It was just, you almost need that sort of, closure you know don�t you? To say, right OK, that�s University done, now on to the next bit. Whereas, that didn�t happen for your year group did it. So whilst you�re both students then, what sort of things did you do, outside of Biology? Dani, what sort of things do you do in your free time as a student?
Dani: Um, I�m not like, unfortunately, I�m not really involved in any like clubs or societies. Um, they make a big push in like Freshers� Week and you�re like inundated. I signed up to so many and I still get emails from them today. Um, but I just sort of figured that, um, in my spare time my favourite thing to do is just hang out with my friends, um, I go to the gym with them a lot, we go running, um, yeah, no I like going out. Um, and then, obviously in my spare time I�ve been doing Step-Up which I really enjoy. And just like, um, small things that I can like, um, maybe earn a bit of money with, like, inside term.
Daniel: But I think that�s really good to hear as well for anybody who�s listening who might be thinking of applying to Oxford because everybody thinks oh, I�ve got to do, like, Gold D of E, I�ve got to be captain of the netball team, and I�ve got to be a school prefect. And, actually..
Maddie: Nah!
Daniel: Yeah, as long as you love your subject, you know, you don�t have to do much outside of that at all.
Maddie: I�m very not sporty. Um, so I tried a couple of things. I tried to do, like, coxing, so sitting in the front of a rowing boat and telling people what to do. But, uh, actually wasn�t confident enough to do that. I was like �oh maybe stop rowing now�. And that didn�t really work. They needed someone to go �No! Stop!� Um, yeah, so did a bit of that, did a bit of like rock climbing, but I enjoyed quite a lot of, like, yeah, the similar thing, doing the access work, um, there�s lots of really cool sort of Biology talks and that kind of thing which are separate to the degree and societies that do that kind of thing. And I really enjoyed a bit of that. Um, and also had a go at making a podcast on a quiet term, believe it or not. Um, which was really really good fun. But again, like, it�s all about, most of the time it was going to the pub with my friends, because that was the priority for me, you know, to spend time with these wonderful people that I�d met. So it was one of those things that, like, if you want to get involved with loads of stuff there are options. But at the same time, even if you want a lazy night at the pub, in Turf Tavern, having a Doom Bar, you can do that too.
Daniel: Who doesn�t love doing that? Um, now, moving on to bigger topics. So you�re both women who study STEM, or a STEM subject. And, a lot has been done over the years to raise the profile of women in STEM, who remain under-represented. Um, so what would you do to encourage more young women to apply for STEM subjects first of all, and then potentially go on to careers in STEM? If you had, sort of, the golden ticket, what would you do?
Dani: I think for me, personally, um, because I should have, like I was scared of Maths, but I could have done Maths. I think from school, there needs to be like, a lot more encouragement, um, towards young girls saying you know �you can do this, it�s not, um, as scary as you know, you think it is�. Um, and if you enjoy it, you should do it.
Maddie: Yeah, off the back of that. Again, I don�t want to at all sound, like, I�m putting all the blame for this on the male population but I think often there can, sort of, be you know, talk about the hard sciences and the real sciences. And often that does come from a small group of, sort of, yeah, sometimes lads and sometimes girls as well. And it, sort of, um, I don�t know there�s sort of the talk of you know things like Biology isn�t a real science and if you don�t do Further Maths and I think a lot of young girls sort of go �oh, ok, that�s probably not for me then�. Whereas some men react to that by going �oh, you know what, I�ll have a go at this challenge�. And that�s obviously a massive generalisation but that was sort of my experience and the experience of some of my female friends. So obviously I�m not going to speak for everybody. But I think, sort of like, trying to make sure that sort of change in culture of like, you know, Further Maths is a mans subject and is a real subject, and Physics is a bit of a mans subject and is a real subject, and you know, oh, well actually, you know English is a girls subject and a bit of an easy subject, and those sort of like off-hand jokes both from, to be honest with teachers and students, I think like the whole culture needs to shift to sort of encourage. Look, do what you enjoy and we�ll support you even if it�s hard or you might feel like you�re the only girl in a class of x many.
Daniel: And I suppose as well it�s the importance of having role-models
Maddie: Yeah
Daniel: Because you�ve both mentioned, you know, Maddie you mentioned Ashleigh was the reason you picked New College. So it�s having somebody like her who you can look up to and think �well, she�s really cool, she�s doing really well. I can do that as well but those people have got to be visible haven�t they?
Maddie: She does loads of stuff as well, like, loads of stuff to encourage young women to get involved in STEM. So yeah, that kind of culture shift.
Daniel: Maddie, after New College, you went to work for a local charity.
Maddie: Yeah
Daniel: So you�re not employed in STEM. What do you do with them at the moment?
Maddie: Yeah, so I�ll give you a bit of a pitch here because I really do like my job. Uh, I work at a charity called Oxford Hub which is a bit of a vague name because we do loads of different things. It�s all about sort of volunteering projects, some collaborative projects, about tackling inequality and connecting people over the city, uh, helping support people with their well-being, that kind of thing. And that looks like loads of different things, like there�s tutoring volunteering programmes, uh and there�s opportunities for students to come up with their own ideas, to come up with new projects, or getting children swimming and cycling. So there�s loads of different stuff hence the sort of vague umbrella name. And within that, um, it was set up by students in 2007 so, we get loads and loads of students volunteering as well as residents, but it�s really nice to sort of bridge that town and gown, which is like a colloquial term for the fact that, you know, Oxford can seem quite, you�ve got the city and you�ve got the students, and they�re two different things so it�s bridging that gap and sort of creating relationships across the city while tackling inequality. And within that my job is supporting a group of students called Crankstart Scholars, which are, well, I was at University, so a group of students from low-income households, uh, and basically how the scholarship works is if you are below a threshold when you apply for like a household income threshold when applying for your student funding, basically, the University sort of automatically drop you a line and go �hi, there�s the offer of this scholarship, uh, which provides sort of financial assistance and internship opportunities and the opportunity to volunteer for 25 hours a year which is where I am come in. So basically I support the scholars doing that. It�s a great way for scholars to connect with Oxford and feel like they�re really part of the city, that sort of belonging, and consider sort of social action and charity careers because it can often seem particularly for students from low-income households that �oh I could never do that� because �oh, I�ll never earn enough�. And actually, they�re exactly the kind of person that we need in the charity sector, who understand the issues first-hand, have lived experience, uh, so it�s great, I work with, I still sort of, haven�t really left in some ways, I�m still working with students, sort of, from New College and all over the University who are part of this scholarship, get that volunteering which is absolutely phenomenal to see inspiring them, and then I also do some sort of like general communications as well, so managing the social media and the inbox and outreach events and I manage a group of students called the student committee who basically do outreach within the student body, um, for us who are really inspiring too.
Daniel: But you�re about to embark on an exciting adventure
Maddie: Hopefully! Covid permitting, yeah, I�m moving on next week, believe it or not, I�m going to cry quite a lot I think. I�ve had an absolutely phenomenal two years and feel really inspired, um, and I love living in Oxford. But I think it�s one of those things, just sort of, in my personal life things have aligned. I�ve always wanted to go travelling for a little bit, um, so yeah, sort of going to try and do that just while Covid seems to be permitting, um, and it works and then we�ll see where we go after that. Maybe the charity sector, maybe working with students, maybe science communication. Quite likely, sort of, a mixture of the two. Like, sort of, getting young people inspired in Biology who maybe are from low-income households or maybe women, women in STEM. We�ll see.
Daniel: Sounds exciting. And Dani, do you have any ideas about what you want to do at the end of this year when you finish being a student?
Dani: Yeah, so um I�ve always had like a keen interest in, um, ever since like I decided I wanted to go to Oxford, um, of just staying in research because, I don�t know, I found Biology and I love Biology so much and I just can�t imagine doing anything but studying more and more Biology. And, you know, in the hope that one day I�ll be one of those people who are finding out new things for then people to study about, and, I just find that idea really, um, amazing so I�ll probably stay in academia. So that means, um, after this year, um, I want to go on to do a Phd, um, so right around this period is when I�m supposed to be applying but I think, um, I need to think about it more so I�m going to take a year out. Um, I don�t really want to stay in the UK so I�m going to go abroad and do a Phd in like Germany, or like the Netherlands, or Italy. I think that would be like, an amazing opportunity to really push myself forward, um, so yeah. Um, academia but a year out first to just sort of take a break, make sure I�m set on where I want to do my Phd and who with, um, before I like decide on something that�s going to take up like four or five years of my life.
Daniel: And then you can be one of the role models for the future as well. And, Maddie, if we look back on your time. What was your favourite thing about New College?
Maddie: Oh, that�s a big question. The people. I�ve just met the best people and, yeah, I absolutely love spending time with them and I walk past College and go �oh, that�s where this person used to live�, and �that�s where this person used to live� and I�m very lucky to have such wonderful friends as a result of coming to New.
Daniel: And what do you miss the most?
Maddie: Ooh. This is going to sound really weird. I like just getting stuff done in the library. Like, I just, yeah, like the library is great and I could just get my head down and just feel so productive and go home and go �yeah!� And Oxfordshire County Council Library is lovely but it�s not the same. It�s not quite the same.
Daniel: Now, both of you worked on New College�s Step-Up Programme, um, at different times. I don�t think you ever worked together, or did you maybe?
Maddie: No, oh, maybe? In first year?
Dani: I think we did in first year.
Daniel: Yeah, I think you might have done. Yeah.
Maddie: It�s all a blur.
Daniel: Yeah, you will have done, wouldn�t you. So Dani you would have been in first year, Maddie would have been in third year, then Covid. Um, so we obviously meet a lot of school children as a result, um, and there may be people listening to this who think �I�ve never even thought about going to Oxford. I don�t think I�m clever enough, that sort of thing. Um, what would you say, both of you, what would you say to that person who might be listening who thinks �yeah, I might give it a go but I�m not sure about it�. What would your advice be?
Dani: I�d say, for me personally anyway, um, the vast majority of people who I�ve met and who I�m friends with at New College felt the exact same way before coming and now absolutely love their degree and love Oxford, and it is for everyone. And it is full of people, you know, just like normal people, or like everyday people, and it�s not like, the stereotyped vibe that�s portrayed in the media. And like, you know, when you read the news and it�s always like, I don�t know, gives a stereotype of being really posh and coming from private schools only and..
Maddie: They get clicks those sorts of stories don�t they?
Dani: Yeah, so um, but in fact yeah, no, they definitely don�t make up the majority and even then, everyone�s just so lovely and so welcoming. And, yeah, I�m friends with people from everywhere, which is amazing. They all love it.
Maddie: Yeah, I think yeah, sort of, not to just repeat what you said, the only other thing that I would probably add is sort of, um, yeah, not worrying about, you know, having to be a genius and that kind of thing. I always think of, when I think who are the kind of Oxbridge candidates when I was in like sixth form. I was like, oh this guy, and this guy, and this guy, and this guy, and they were all just like genius sort of vibes. But like, yeah, they get 100% in their Maths tests so they�re going to go to Oxbridge but in reality, I mean I can�t speak for obviously every subject but, um, I found that like the main thing that ties everyone together is they really just like their subject, they really want to learn about it, um, that�s most people I experienced anyway. And that was it, like it�s really nice being around people who, yeah, really care about what they�re doing and want to put a bit of time into an essay and you know what I�m going to read this academic paper because it just looks really cool and not just because I�m being told to do it. And that was it, like going to interview and that kind of thing, it wasn�t really for me, going like �oh, here are all the facts that I�ve learnt�. It was like, oh, um, I really like this subject and here�s where I want to go with it and I really care about it and I�m going to try. Um, I think, yeah, that�s a really big part of it. So if you feel like that�s you, I think you really enjoy your subject, and you want to learn more, I think definitely give it a go because it�s well worth it.
Daniel: And Maddie, your degree was 72 weeks long
Maddie: Yeah
Daniel: Um, but since then obviously we�ve said the course has restructured so it�s now longer but if you were to relive those 72 weeks again, and there wasn�t a pandemic in the middle of it
Maddie: Yeah, thank you!
Daniel: Um, what would you do differently? And what one piece of advice would you give Dani as she embarks on her final part of her time in Oxford?
Maddie: Good question, I�m going to answer the second bit first and say advice to Dani, don�t feel like you have to take it, is but, there is, like you will do it. Um, as in like, I know you�ve done most of your finals, but sometimes it can be like �oh my gosh, this is a whole degree and how am I going to get everything done? When you start at the beginning of the year, you think how on earth am I going to be able to do this exam by the end of the year? And maybe now for your Masters as well, it might seem like �oh there�s this whole project that I�ve got to do and how am I going to get it all done in time?� And you will get it done. And it will be fine. And you�ll come out the other side and go �that was sick�, hopefully. Um, yeah, just sort of sometimes it can seem far away or seem like, oh actually I�ve got to get a lot done but actually you will do it, you�ll sit those exams, you will do that, sort of, Masters project and you will finish it and you�ll go �wow�. So that�s my answer to that.
Dani: Yeah, it�s feeling very daunting at the moment.
Maddie: Exactly!
Dani: It�s very very scary
Maddie: Yeah
Dani: It�s lots of coding which I, um, haven�t really done much of. And I need to teach myself.
Maddie: Yeah, and you�ll do it! You�ll learn it, and you�ll do it, and you�ll ace it. And you�ll get to the end and be like �I can�t believe I did that�. That�s great. Um, in terms of what I�d do differently, um, good question, I think probably just like worry a bit less. Um, and live in the moment a bit more, which sounds a bit �urgh�, yolo but you know what I mean, like, not to be cringeworthy about it but like, living in the moment, like there was a moment I remember walking down New College lane which is a beautiful lane down, sort of, the side of New College and going �woah, I can�t believe I�m living this�. And I want to do a bit more of that. And be like �oh ok yeah, there�s an essay tomorrow. It will be done. I�ll get it done, like I always get it done. And, enjoy the process a bit more. And I�m not saying that I didn�t but every now and then there�ll be like �oh no, I needed to do this and I forgot� and, um, just not worry about that because it�ll all get done and just go �wow, this is amazing� and I did a lot of that but it�d be nice to do a little bit more of that.
Daniel: And that�s a good mindset to have as you go off on your travels
Maddie: Thank you
Daniel: Wherever you end up going. Yeah, but Dani and Maddie thank you ever so much for joining me this afternoon and tune in next time. Thanks very much.
Maddie: Thank you
Dani: Thank you
Daniel: Thanks